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Page 1 of 2 1 2 > Topic Options #3650919 - 04/14/09 11:39 PM Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 UglyValiant UglyValiant Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI Making it's first appearence in the all-new 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Type: 60 Degree V6
Material: Aluminum deep skirt block
Valves: Chain driven DOHC with 24 valves. Roller finger followers and hydraulic lash adjusters. Dual independent cam-torque actuated phasers.
Displacement: 220 cid / 3.6 liters
Bore x Stroke: 3.78 x 3.27 (96 x 83 mm)
Compression: 10.2:1
Fuel injection: Returnless, sequential
Redline: 6,400 rpm (other version to 7,200 rpm)
Power: 280 hp @ 6,400
Torque: 260ft-lbs @ 4,800

Other version of the engine to include 3.0, 3.3, and possibly a 4.0 in the future.

While initial versions won't have it, expect MDS to make an appearance in the near future.

Likewise, expect a direct injected version rated for higher horsepower and torque.

Notable features and advancements:
-substantially lighter and cheaper to build that GM's 3.6.
-No mounting brackets for accessories such as A/C conpressor or altenator...for reduced vibration over other similar engines, ease of servicing, and reduced cost in production, these will be mounted directly to the block.
-No exhaust manifolds...manifolds are essentially cast into the heads reducing space requirements for engine bays. Designed for both N/S and E/W mounting.
-oil to antifreeze cooler incorporated into the engine block.
-designed to incorporate camless operation in the future.
-Oil filter is mounted on top of the engine and is now canisterless, using a paper element. No spills, easing DIY oil changes considerably.

Will replace all chrysler V6 and the 4.7 V8 (perhaps with an all-new 4.7 in the future). The last of the current gen v6's (2.7, 3.3, 3.5, 3.5HO, 3.8) are slated to be replaced by 2014.

As featured in the jeep, mileage is expected to be 16/23, compared to 16/21 in current GC featuring the 210 hp 3.7 v6.

HP and torque compare favorably to other similar sized v6 without direct injection (GM's 3.6 produces 263hp/253ft-lbs of torque, Honda 271/254, Toyota 268/248, Nissan 3.5 VQ in the maxima is 290/261, but uses premium fuel) and using regular gas. When direct injection comes to the fold, or tuning is configured for lighter vehicles, the specs of the pentastar should improve.

In the GC it will start life in front of mercedes derived 5 speed. However, talks are that by 2012 the first of the new generation of transmissions will start to find there way behind these engines (as well as the Hemi); we're not talking 6 speeds, or even 7...but 8 speed automatics. As well as a new axle supplier working on high efficiency axles/transaxles, 8 speed auto's, MDS, and direct injection, a near unparalleled level of performance and economy should be achievable. _________________________
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.
Top Videos #3650941 - 04/14/09 11:43 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: UglyValiant] Euphoricuck Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan _________________________

Top #3651029 - 04/15/09 12:11 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: UglyValiant] progressi progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9133 I hope they make it that far,with the renewed GM bankruptcy/re-org news,I havent heard much about Chrysler's viability. Is the Fiat deal done yet? They've got at least 2 cars that may make it over here shortly,at least 2 good ones,the little 500 and something else Scooter knows of Im sure.

Well,I hope they stay with it.

Oh,since Im rambling,did they keep Viper?
Top #3651305 - 04/15/09 06:51 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: progressi] NHRATA01 NHRATA01 Offline
Post Master


Registered: 10/05/01
Posts: 2030
Loc: New York The 2.7/3.2/3.5 line of V6's though only first came out what, about 11-12 years ago and were supposed to be revolutionary and the first completely paperless designed engine. They're already ditching them for clean-sheet V6's? Thats alot of money for a short-lived investment. _________________________
2001 NHRA Trans Am M6
2012 Buick Regal GS
Top #3651456 - 04/15/09 08:34 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: UglyValiant] Adam G Adam G Offline
Out of Control Mod.
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/07/00
Posts: 57250
Loc: Chicago, IL  Originally Posted By: UglyValiant-substantially lighter and cheaper to build that GM's 3.6.
Nice.
 Quote:HP and torque compare favorably to other similar sized v6 without direct injection ( GM's 3.6 produces 363hp/253ft-lbs of torque , Honda 271/254, Toyota 268/248, Nissan 3.5 VQ in the maxima is 290/261, but uses premium fuel) and using regular gas.
Since when?

Edited by Adam G ( 04/15/09 08:38 AM )
Top #3651501 - 04/15/09 08:47 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: NHRATA01] scootergeek scootergeek Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46172
Loc: St. Louis  Originally Posted By: NHRATA01The 2.7/3.2/3.5 line of V6's though only first came out what, about 11-12 years ago and were supposed to be revolutionary and the first completely paperless designed engine. They're already ditching them for clean-sheet V6's? Thats alot of money for a short-lived investment.

The 3.3 is junk. Ask me how I know.

cheers,
scott _________________________
"What we do is fall. All the time. And we get back up."

- Rodney Mullen

Top #3651506 - 04/15/09 08:47 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: ] scootergeek scootergeek Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46172
Loc: St. Louis  Originally Posted By: PatB18CWhy would they design/release a brand-new powerplant without direct injection?

Didn't have the money to design it when they've never done it before?

cheers,
scott _________________________
"What we do is fall. All the time. And we get back up."

- Rodney Mullen

Top #3651511 - 04/15/09 08:49 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: scootergeek] Adam G Adam G Offline
Out of Control Mod.
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/07/00
Posts: 57250
Loc: Chicago, IL  Originally Posted By: scootergeek Originally Posted By: PatB18CWhy would they design/release a brand-new powerplant without direct injection?

Didn't have the money to design it when they've never done it before?

cheers,
scott
Weren't they making engines with Mitsu? I think Mitsu holds the patent on DI.

Could be wrong though.
Top #3651910 - 04/15/09 10:36 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: ] scootergeek scootergeek Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46172
Loc: St. Louis  Originally Posted By: PatB18C
Then again, that new HEMI for the GC SRT-8 could have been shelved so they could spend some money on, oh... IMPROVING EFFICIENCY AND FUEL ECONOMY LIKE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT.

I don't know, they'll never be competitive in the mass market Fit/Civic/Accord classes (at least when not counting the Fiat connection). Maybe they should just concentrate on what they can do right as a much smaller niche specific company.

cheers,
scott _________________________
"What we do is fall. All the time. And we get back up."

- Rodney Mullen

Top #3651922 - 04/15/09 10:38 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: scootergeek] scootergeek scootergeek Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46172
Loc: St. Louis Actually, now that I think about it. Alfa, as part of Fiat, is using 60*, cast iron, V6 Holden short blocks with their own heads these days as a left over from the aborted GM-Fiat deal. This motor could be the start of a new generation of something great.

cheers,
scott _________________________
"What we do is fall. All the time. And we get back up."

- Rodney Mullen

Top #3651968 - 04/15/09 10:51 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: ] UglyValiant UglyValiant Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI  Originally Posted By: PatB18CWhy would they design/release a brand-new powerplant without direct injection? Actually it has the provisions for DI (as mentioned previously)...and will be in future applications. I believe it wasn't used due to the extra noise present, thus deemed not suitable for their base GC. _________________________
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.
Top #3651983 - 04/15/09 10:55 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: Adam G] UglyValiant UglyValiant Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI  Originally Posted By: Adam G Originally Posted By: UglyValiant-substantially lighter and cheaper to build that GM's 3.6.
Nice.
 Quote:HP and torque compare favorably to other similar sized v6 without direct injection ( GM's 3.6 produces 363hp/253ft-lbs of torque , Honda 271/254, Toyota 268/248, Nissan 3.5 VQ in the maxima is 290/261, but uses premium fuel) and using regular gas.
Since when? edited the original post to reflect the correct 263 as opposed to the original typo, 363. _________________________
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.
Top #3652028 - 04/15/09 11:07 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: UglyValiant] OnyxEros OnyxEros Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 14452
Loc: Seattle I don't like this idea
 Quote:-No exhaust manifolds...manifolds are essentially cast into the heads reducing space requirements for engine bays. Designed for both N/S and E/W mounting. _________________________
[quote=turbo_guy_fieri][quote=Kuku]Silence is consent[/quote] [/quote]

Top #3652125 - 04/15/09 11:40 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: OnyxEros] Quad4_driver Quad4_driver Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 10454
Loc: B.C. Canada The GM V6 already uses this idea, works fine for them.

Also i think there are some 280hp verisons of GM engine non DI.
Top #3652678 - 04/15/09 01:32 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: Quad4_driver] UglyValiant UglyValiant Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI  Originally Posted By: Quad4_driverAlso i think there are some 280hp verisons of GM engine non DI. I know the Lambda platform actually does use a non-DI version (LY7) recently upgraded from 270 to 275hp (251 ft-lbs of torque), and their DI (LTT) counterpart for that platform is 286hp... _________________________
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.
Top #3652714 - 04/15/09 01:37 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: UglyValiant] CommonGutterTrash CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA exhaust manifolds cast into the head?

EEP

I can't WAIT for that giant fail. _________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

Top #3653509 - 04/15/09 04:25 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: CommonGutterTrash] Quad4_driver Quad4_driver Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 10454
Loc: B.C. Canada  Originally Posted By: g96ntexhaust manifolds cast into the head?

EEP

I can't WAIT for that giant fail.


 Originally Posted By: Quad4_driverThe GM V6 already uses this idea, works fine for them.

.
Top #3654250 - 04/15/09 07:49 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: Quad4_driver] CommonGutterTrash CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA "works for GM" means it will last 3-4 years, and be an epic fail requiring the purchase of new heads when the material gets brittle, and cracks, or warps too severely from the heat running through them.

What motors is this used on?
Do we know of any applications? _________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

Top #3654275 - 04/15/09 07:57 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: CommonGutterTrash] spotch... spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 56715 This isn't anything new. I don't like it from a modification standpoint, but otherwise I don't really think it matters a whole hell of a lot. In all my life I've never seen an OEM manifold crack or fall apart, and my family has owned a whole bunch of chrysler products, crappy and otherwise, (in addition to the Hondas I've kicked around and other various pieces of shit I've owned through the years). I think a cracking exhaust manifold on a not-too-incredibly-stressed NA engine is probably at the very bottom of the list of things that can possibly go wrong with a brand new line of engines.
Top #3654356 - 04/15/09 08:17 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: CommonGutterTrash] Quad4_driver Quad4_driver Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 10454
Loc: B.C. Canada  Originally Posted By: g96nt"works for GM" means it will last 3-4 years, and be an epic fail requiring the purchase of new heads when the material gets brittle, and cracks, or warps too severely from the heat running through them.

What motors is this used on?
Do we know of any applications?

As far as i know, every single one of the GMs High Feature V6s has this design. It been around since 2004 , never heard of them having problems with it.
Top #3654403 - 04/15/09 08:29 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: Quad4_driver] skierd skierd Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 08/21/01
Posts: 9091
Loc: Fairbanks, AK If memory serves, Honda uses it too, on the current non-si civics. _________________________
Never run out of real estate, traction & ideas at the same time.
2012 Outback - 2008 Yamaha WR250R v2.0
Top #3654455 - 04/15/09 08:41 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: skierd] spotch... spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 56715  Originally Posted By: skierdIf memory serves, Honda uses it too, on the current non-si civics.

YES! That's where else I saw that... that was driving me crazy. The R18 (or whatever the newer fuel economy 1.8 liters are called) have that. No cracked manifolds there.
Top #3654585 - 04/15/09 09:17 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: spotch...] CommonGutterTrash CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA  Originally Posted By: spotchThis isn't anything new. I don't like it from a modification standpoint, but otherwise I don't really think it matters a whole hell of a lot. In all my life I've never seen an OEM manifold crack or fall apart, and my family has owned a whole bunch of chrysler products, crappy and otherwise, (in addition to the Hondas I've kicked around and other various pieces of shit I've owned through the years). I think a cracking exhaust manifold on a not-too-incredibly-stressed NA engine is probably at the very bottom of the list of things that can possibly go wrong with a brand new line of engines.

some of my biggest selling cast manifolds at work are non vtec honda manifolds, camry manifolds, and hyundai manifolds. they're followed VERY closely by civic 1.7L manifolds, and nissan 2.5L manifolds.

The I6 jeep manilfolds are by-FAR our biggest sellers, and ford 302/351 is close behind.

Is the high-feature the catera/aurora/saab motor?
I may eat my words. _________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

Top #3655139 - 04/16/09 12:18 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: CommonGutterTrash] spotch... spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 56715 Meh, I dunno what to tell you. Not only have I never experienced it with anything I've ever owned, I've never known of even heard of anyone with an OEM manifold that just spontaneously broke or dissolved (beyond the standard surface rust).

Do you have a lot of 06+ civics (the ones with integrated manifolds) coming in with cracked manifolds? _________________________
"On the street where there is no lap timer, feel is all that matters" - scootergeek
"A bunch of nerdy douchebags chasing a ghost." -Ob1 on bitcoin
Top #3655148 - 04/16/09 12:28 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: spotch...] HoustonFocusST HoustonFocusST Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/08/00
Posts: 40500
Loc: Lovely CONROE, TX! YEE-HA!  Originally Posted By: spotchMeh, I dunno what to tell you. Not only have I never experienced it with anything I've ever owned, I've never known of even heard of anyone with an OEM manifold that just spontaneously broke or dissolved (beyond the standard surface rust).

Do you have a lot of 06+ civics (the ones with integrated manifolds) coming in with cracked manifolds?

lol QR25DE manifold does that.
Top #3655158 - 04/16/09 12:38 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: CommonGutterTrash] Quad4_driver Quad4_driver Offline
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Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 10454
Loc: B.C. Canada  Originally Posted By: g96nt Originally Posted By: spotchThis isn't anything new. I don't like it from a modification standpoint, but otherwise I don't really think it matters a whole hell of a lot. In all my life I've never seen an OEM manifold crack or fall apart, and my family has owned a whole bunch of chrysler products, crappy and otherwise, (in addition to the Hondas I've kicked around and other various pieces of shit I've owned through the years). I think a cracking exhaust manifold on a not-too-incredibly-stressed NA engine is probably at the very bottom of the list of things that can possibly go wrong with a brand new line of engines.

some of my biggest selling cast manifolds at work are non vtec honda manifolds, camry manifolds, and hyundai manifolds. they're followed VERY closely by civic 1.7L manifolds, and nissan 2.5L manifolds.

The I6 jeep manilfolds are by-FAR our biggest sellers, and ford 302/351 is close behind.

Is the high-feature the catera/aurora/saab motor?
I may eat my words.



The High-feature replaced the Catera (Holden/Opel/Saab engine 54 degree V6), and the Aurora 3.5L "Shortstar" that was loosely based off the Northstar.

High-feature debuted in the first gen CTS.
Top #3655609 - 04/16/09 08:48 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: Quad4_driver] CommonGutterTrash CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA wait... this is what you mean?



That's hardly a manifold, really.
I was picturing an actual manifold with runners, and all.

Still, with the way manifolds/collectors warp/crack.. I am MUCH happier having a throw-away part. _________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

Top #3656490 - 04/16/09 01:04 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: CommonGutterTrash] Quad4_driver Quad4_driver Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 10454
Loc: B.C. Canada Yeah thats it.

No i doesn't look like a normal manifold. The exhaust down pipe bolts right on to the head, makes for better packaging.
Top #3656494 - 04/16/09 01:05 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: HoustonFocusST] spotch... spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 56715  Originally Posted By: HoustonRSX Originally Posted By: spotchMeh, I dunno what to tell you. Not only have I never experienced it with anything I've ever owned, I've never known of even heard of anyone with an OEM manifold that just spontaneously broke or dissolved (beyond the standard surface rust).

Do you have a lot of 06+ civics (the ones with integrated manifolds) coming in with cracked manifolds?

lol QR25DE manifold does that.

God what a flaming pile of this that car was. Unbelievable.

Well, outliers (flaming piles of shit) aside , I still say it won't be a big problem. And, like the spec V, if you're dealing with a car that crappy, by the time the manifold cracks it's probably got a foot in the grave anyway and it's the least of your worries lol.
Top #3656511 - 04/16/09 01:13 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: spotch...] Quad4_driver Quad4_driver Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 10454
Loc: B.C. Canada Nissans in general have manifold cracking issues. All of the VG engines have the problem, some of the GA engines too.
Top #3656591 - 04/16/09 01:33 PM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: Quad4_driver] HoustonFocusST HoustonFocusST Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/08/00
Posts: 40500
Loc: Lovely CONROE, TX! YEE-HA!  Originally Posted By: Quad4_driverNissans in general have manifold cracking issues. All of the VG engines have the problem, some of the GA engines too.

More of their catalytic converters like to disintegrate also.
Top #9164412 - 10/20/17 09:53 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: HoustonFocusST] leilei3915 leilei3915 Offline
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Top #9173943 - 10/31/17 03:24 AM Re: Introducing the new "Pentastar" V6 [Re: leilei3915] HYst HYst Offline
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Registered: 05/21/17
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